Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: What does that good employee employer relationship look like?
[00:00:05] Speaker B: How much weight do you place on a college degree versus real world experience?
[00:00:09] Speaker A: Are you optimistic about the opportunities ahead? Like, what do you. What are you thinking?
[00:00:14] Speaker B: How can people early in their careers advocate for themselves without feeling like they're overstepping?
[00:00:19] Speaker A: And she put her finger in my face, right, and said, don't you ever, ever talk to a C level without clearing it with me first.
On today's podcast, Riding the Big Wheel, we've decided to do something very different.
I know that me as a leader and my peers and colleagues and friends were always wondering, so what's up with Gen Z anyway? Because there's a lot of things that people say and what they believe, that they believe. Now, I have two Gen Z daughters, and I can tell you that some of the things that you read and hear about are true and some maybe not so much.
So I thought, what better way to get feedback from Gen Z than to talk to one of our own? Avery Mehler, who is our social media specialist here at Sales Globe. I work very closely with Avery on the podcast Riding the Big Wheel. And thank you, Avery, for all the work that you do to make that happen.
And she has decided to be a good sport today and go in front of the camera instead of behind it to answer and to ask a few questions today.
[00:01:26] Speaker B: Yeah. Thank you, Michelle, for having me on here. I'm so excited to dig into this discussion.
[00:01:30] Speaker A: Yeah, so am I. Okay, so let's start with something really hard, which is when you think about a successful career, now, you're pretty young in your career, but when you think about what success looks like, what do you think about?
[00:01:48] Speaker B: Yeah, so I think from a Gen Z perspective, there's a lot of points that make a successful career. And I think one of the points is, you know, we want to bring value and we want to have a purpose in our career. And then I think the next point would be, you know, we want to work for a company for a long time, and we want to be able to grow and learn within that company. And I think the third point is also, you know, having that financial stability where we make enough income to do, you know, things we want to do outside of work and also provide a living. I think ultimately, I think the end goal of this all is to find something that we enjoy doing.
[00:02:23] Speaker A: So that is exactly what Generation X would say that they value. And I find a couple of things pretty interesting in what you just said. The first one is there's a perception from Gen Z that they don't want to stick around.
They don't want to be anywhere more than a year or two years.
But what I'm hearing from you is something different, different than that. So you are looking for some level of stability.
And at the same time, though, you want to make sure that you're doing something that is valuable, that you feel it's valuable and gives you a sense of purpose.
[00:02:56] Speaker B: Yeah, I feel like we'll kind of touch on this later on, but I feel like we kind of are like getting our hands dirty, trying to get the experience, but like try different things to see what we really enjoy or what we like doing. So.
[00:03:08] Speaker A: So from my perspective, that pretty much aligns, that does align very well with what I see as a successful career.
And I would say I'm really excited because I believe I'm there. So I love what I do. I'm excited about it every day. I do believe that I have a purpose in the work that we do. We really do have at sales globe, an opportunity to change people's lives. And I have the flexibility as an entrepreneur to. To do things like this, have a podcast, which is really a labor of love.
[00:03:40] Speaker B: Okay. That kind of gets us into our next question, which is how do you build a successful career when you don't have a long term plan figured out?
[00:03:48] Speaker A: So, Avery, when I was your age, like I totally didn't have it figured out. And I would say that even at 30, I really didn't have it figured out.
And what I did was I tried different things.
I'll tell you a story. So I did take a position right after college with a company that I had an internship with and it was doing Spanish translation and I love languages. So again, it was something that I really liked, but I wasn't so sure that I wanted to work for a sure manufacturing company for the rest of my life. But it was, you know, an opportunity to explore and look at other things.
And giving myself that opportunity to it afforded me one more, which was an opportunity to move to Atlanta. And as a young person, you know, I wouldn't have just moved to Atlanta, but the company, they asked me to relocate and do some training and development.
And really what happened was we were working with McKinsey consulting firm and one of the partners said to me, michelle, you're here in upstate New York. I think you would do great in consulting. There's a lot more opportunities in Atlanta. You know, I think you should come down and I'll give you an opportunity where you're kind of in the training and development, doing consulting and seeing what that looks like. And I said, glenn. Like, I. His name was Glenn. I wanted to move to New York. Like, I didn't really want to move to Atlanta. And he said to me, we're paying you to relocate. We're paying you a bonus to come down.
You can use that money and have a lot left over if you decide to just come back to, you know, upstate New York. What have you got to lose? And so I did it right. So I took a risk and an opportunity, and I tried something new. And then ultimately that led me to consulting. So I would say be open to the opportunities that are there and listen and learn from others and get their feedback on what you're good at and what they think you're good at and make a decision and start thinking about, what do you really like?
[00:05:53] Speaker B: Yeah, I think that's great advice.
[00:05:56] Speaker A: Let's talk about. Because this leads into mentorship.
So how important is it to you to have a mentor, someone that you can ask questions of or rely on, even talk to in confidence about your career at your place of work?
[00:06:12] Speaker B: Yeah, so I think it's very valuable to have that mentorship.
They provide us guidance, you, you know, feedback. It's also, like, a safe space to, like, fail, but also encourage you to get back up and try it again. And like you said, you know, with Glenn, like, telling you to take that risk, like, that's another important.
Like, they know what we're good at, and we even ourselves, we don't know what we're good at. So, like, somebody else telling you that's what you're good at, like, pushed you to do that.
[00:06:39] Speaker A: So I had a mentor that I really love and I still talk to today.
I was your age, you know, maybe a couple years older, maybe.
And no, I was actually your age. It was my second job out of college, and I had a. I was. I reported into it. You know, I was in a technical position, and I played, though, a consulting role, a liaison role, doing the technical team and the business. And my mentor there ran it.
So when I made a decision to go into consulting and I worked with Accenture, and then after that, I made a decision to own my own business. I own retail stores and a distribution facility and all of that. When I got out of all of that. Now think about how many years have gone by now, like, over 15 years, when I was getting back into the workplace, that's who I called, and that's the person who helped me think through how. How I was going to get back into the workplace. So let me ask you something on mentorship. Do you think that it's important for a company to have like a formal mentorship program or individuals that are just like aware and it's more informal where it's trust based and you select your mentor?
[00:07:57] Speaker B: I really feel like it's, it's probably needs to be informal. Like you can't just force a relationship. And I kind of have that with here at Sales Globe. You know, I have that relationship and it's because, you know, we've gotten close, we've gotten to know each other. So I know that I can come to that person.
And I think it's just based on, you know, building that relationship.
[00:08:17] Speaker A: So I think that's good for people like me to hear, for leaders to hear, because there's a lot of pressure around having these formalized mentorship programs and women's groups or you know, it can be any type of group, but a lot of women's group and how they advance and I don't know how effective they are when you compare it to an informal relationship for someone that's been there and done that. And can you feel like you can really talk to about what concerns you or how you get to the next step?
[00:08:51] Speaker B: Yeah, that's great. Michelle, I am going to jump into the next question, which is how can people early in their careers advocate for themselves without feeling like they're overstepping?
[00:09:01] Speaker A: So I think that a lot of that has to do with leadership. I think it has to do with leaders having, you know, people talk about open door policy but just being approachable. And I know in really big companies that's really hard. So you've got to create, you know, like levels of being able to, you know, be approachable, but it starts at the top.
So I think if someone feels like they're overstepping or they can't say something, it's because they feel like they can't. And I'll give you another example of something that happened early in my career that was really kind of upsetting to me.
So I had an open door and I think I told you I worked with a major company in innovation. I won't name the company, but it's a global company. In their innovation team, I had full access to the CFO and the CEO and I was working with them on a project.
Well then they had a restructure and they started a whole new organization, including a whole new market marketing team. And they brought in a new leader from the outside for that team. Someone Much more senior than I was. I was a bit earlier in my career and I was having, I was making copies of something, I was having a conversation and she was walking by, you know, like the Xerox machines, the copy machines, and I'm making all these copies and she was asking me how things were going and I was telling her how I just got finished this conversation with the CFO and she, and I was talking to her about what we were going to be doing and she said, stop right there, stop right there. And she put her finger in my face, right. And said, don't you ever, ever talk to a C level without clearing it with me first. And I was like, so that's the way you do it wrong.
And make people feel like, what the heck is going on there?
So I think if you are respectful, which you are, and I think it's really up to leaders to make people feel comfortable to have those discussions. Yeah. How are you thinking now? I want you to think about, you know, broadly as like your peers as well as yourself. Like, how are you thinking about career progression and the job market today? And, and like, where do you think you would even be five or ten years from now? Or are you optimistic about the opportunities ahead? Like, what do you, what are you thinking?
[00:11:31] Speaker B: Yeah, I feel like, you know, my, my generation, we're still in that like, experimental phase where we're trying new things and seeing what we enjoy and so we're still getting that hands on interaction. And I think it's important for us to, like you said earlier, try different things. And you know, I feel like here at Sal's Club in the marketing department, I, I'm able to try different things. I've been able to do graphic design, video production, you know, doing different things to see what I like within marketing. I think that's really something that's crucial for us to have.
[00:12:02] Speaker A: You know, you, you also brought up another interesting idea that I think leaders should be aware of and be thinking about.
So we give you things outside of your job description to do.
And I do think that for me, like a great, a great employee or someone great on our team, I'll say a great team member is someone that is curious, innovative, wants to explore, try new things and we give them the opportunity to do that. And in the end I think you end up with a win, win better worked product, happier employees or happier team members. And I think everybody wins, you know, in that kind of situation.
[00:12:44] Speaker B: I agree with that one.
[00:12:46] Speaker A: So let's talk about the experiences that your friends or your Peers are having.
[00:12:51] Speaker B: Yeah. So I have a couple of friends kind of feeling the same way that I feel. I mean, I've had friends that have gone to college and got a degree. They got out of college, tried that job, and they changed, they changed pathways because they did not like what they were doing. So I feel like we're all just still in that experimental phase.
[00:13:08] Speaker A: And that's a very interesting thing. Thing as well, because for my generation and then pro, definitely the one, the generation before me, but for my generation, a lot of times you stuck with it and I didn't. But a lot of times you did. And I look around at a lot of people that are my age today and I see that they've done a job for 20 years, 25 years, you know, even 30 years in some cases at the same company and they're okay, but they're waiting for the day that they retire, you know. And me, I'm thinking about the next 20 years.
So. Because I love it so much. So I think it's an interesting dynamic that you bring up where young people are trying different things. And at the same time, though, I want leaders to hear this. It's not that you want to job hop and leave different companies, but you're looking for opportunities that could potentially be right there at your own organization for, you know, team members or employees that want to be there long term.
[00:14:14] Speaker B: And I would say this for like, you know, the other generations. Like, I think it's important to know that it's never too late to change careers. I think that everybody. You don't know how long you have in this life, so you can still change careers at any moment.
[00:14:29] Speaker A: That is very wise for a young girl because. Well, I'm going to tell you, when I graduated from college, my, I got accepted into two different law schools, school where I wanted to go, and that's what I wanted to do. I was going to, yeah, I was going to take the path of law. Anyway, I put it on hold, I thought for a year because I was like, okay, I'll save some money for law school and you know, I'll go back next year. And I think I told you in that timeframe that I'm working for this company. And then they relocated to Atlanta and I ultimately chose to go to Emory and I got an MBA and I did other things and I had a great career in consulting, which, you know, now I own a consulting business.
But I don't regret any of that. However, back then I was 27 and I thought I was way behind the ball, the eight ball. And that there was no way I could go to law school. I was going to be too old. Right. That was the perception.
And then yet, you know, I'm risk taking at all different ages now and trying all kinds of different things. So I agree with you.
[00:15:41] Speaker B: Yeah, I think it's really important.
[00:15:42] Speaker A: Yep.
[00:15:44] Speaker B: All right, so leading into the next question, which is how can young professionals develop strong presentation skills early in their careers?
[00:15:52] Speaker A: Okay, that is really a great question. And I'm going to tell you about a presentation that totally failed for me. And then I'm going to tell you about, you know, how you can do one that's really good.
So I was in grad school and at the time I was working full time, I was planning for a wedding. I was basically going to school full time and I was building a house.
I was doing all those things at exactly the same time. So a demanding job. And oh, by the way, I should mention at my job that I had, when I was deciding to go to B school, that mentor I mentioned, and his name was Dan, but that mentor that I mentioned, he said to me, when you go to B school, don't worry about your job. Like, don't even worry about it. I am going to make sure that this works for you. Okay? From the time I got accepted into school and the time I started the program, I got promoted. And it was not a promotion that I even had a choice on. It was now it was a bigger job. It was, you know, downtown Atlanta, upper level floor. I had an office with a window with a view from like the 40 something floor. And my boss, my new boss came in that day and he said to me, so I just need you to know I know you're starting B school and I'll be one of your mentors. We're going to co mentor you, but people are gonna be watching you and watching me. So I'm gonna be really hard on you and expect a lot out of you while you're going through this program. By the way, how do you enjoy your new office with this great view? And I went, oh my God.
So that's literally what happened when I took that opportunity.
Now at that time, all this is leading to a presentation.
So now I told you I was doing all these things. I've got the job building the house, I'm getting married, I'm working full time.
[00:17:55] Speaker B: Where's the work life balance?
[00:17:57] Speaker A: That wasn't even part of the equation. So we had a big presentation with my team that we were doing and I Was like hanging on by the rails. They're like, don't worry, Michelle, we'll do the work. You just go in there. You've been, you know, this stuff, whatever. I got in there and I didn't know it.
[00:18:15] Speaker B: It.
[00:18:16] Speaker A: I didn't feel that I knew it.
[00:18:17] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:18:18] Speaker A: And I went in there and I was one of the better speakers, you know, I did like, I did acting and stuff like that. Just in high school and middle school and college for fun, just for fun, nothing serious. So I didn't have a problem speaking in front of a lot of people. And I got up there and I was like.
And I was like, my voice was shaking. It was so embarrassing. And I looked over one of my colleagues like, please save me and now. And he came right over and he just kind of, you know, took my place. And I stepped aside and I was like feeling like I was breaking out in hives.
So knowing the material, just like really knowing the material is good. But here's another thing that's really great. And I do this. We do this at Sales Club. We will have people present in front of our team. We'll have them present in front of sometimes just like two people. Because there's some of our methodology things that we do at Sales Club. The consultants have to be able to talk about it really well. They have to be able to do their intro really well. So we have a mentor that works with them and helps them practice it. And then we put them in front of a small group and then a little bit bigger group. And then that kind of helps you. But it's really that preparation and experience.
That's what I would say. People will tell you there's tricks like stand on your toes or do this
[00:19:43] Speaker B: or that or breathe.
[00:19:45] Speaker A: It's like all nonsense.
[00:19:46] Speaker B: Like. No, it's just practice and time like it is, I think what the main thing of it is.
[00:19:51] Speaker A: Yep, yep.
[00:19:52] Speaker B: I wish I could get over that.
I'm waiting for that time to come.
[00:19:57] Speaker A: I don't think. I think that it was probably a few years, you know, like I would have been a few years older than you are now before that started to happen.
But like the full confidence, I don't know, takes a while, you know. And there are some amazing. There's a young girl, like a 17 year old girl who's doing TED talks, right. I interviewed her mother and she, you know about. Because she's like a really young CEO of a company and it just came naturally to her. But for a lot of us it just doesn't. And I think it's just practice and the time and hanging on to that mentor to give you really good feedback.
[00:20:38] Speaker B: I'm jealous of those people who have it naturally.
[00:20:41] Speaker A: I know, Me too, because it took me a long time to develop the skill.
So let's talk about the employee employer relationship. So I like to think about us as being a team at Sales Globe, but we still have, you know, you've got, like, your partners and you've got directors and managers, and you have a director of marketing and then a manager. And, you know, there's you. It's. Even though it's a little bit smaller team, but there's still levels and, you know, corporate ladder. A little bit corporate ladder. Even though I don't like to say we're like that.
So I won't tell you what my business partner says about corporate versus entrepreneurial companies.
So for you, though, what does that good employee employer relationship look like?
[00:21:32] Speaker B: Yeah, I think it really is two simple words, which is trust and respect.
And so I feel like employees, they want to be able to feel trusted to do their work, and they also want to be respected as people. And then for the employers, they want to trust their employees doing their work and, you know, contributing to the organizational goals.
Yeah. So I think that kind of goes into our next question, which is how do you balance building a successful career while making time for the things that matter outside of work?
[00:22:05] Speaker A: That is so.
That is such a great.
[00:22:10] Speaker B: I know you're going through it right. Right now.
[00:22:12] Speaker A: I am going through it right now. But first, let me talk about how work has evolved. So when I grew up in the workplace and when I grew up in consulting, it was a 247 job. And I think that some of that still exists throughout a lot of companies. It really depends on the company culture. But I will say that over time, as my career has grown, that I've seen leaders and companies, I've seen a lot of women in leadership like me look back on their career and say, why did I miss the recital?
Why did I miss that play or that event or that birthday party?
And I have those regrets. And so one of my commitments are no one is going to do that who's on my watch or my team.
So we try to. What I try to instill in others is when you're on vacation, there are no phone calls to you. I grew up in the era where when you were on vacation, your phone was right there by your side. It was like you were always on.
Right.
So now that's evolving a little bit.
And So I think leaders need to know and understand that we're going to have those boundaries. And when you do have those boundaries, I can tell you that I can call any person on our team and I'll say, oh, my gosh, that, that Australian, you know, that, that interview we have in Australia, it's going to be at 9 o' clock on Tuesday night, and they'll say, I'm there, you know, because we respect and have boundaries on purpose, personal time and making sure that we leave space for people when they're having, you know, personal, whether it's celebratory or something else going on in their life. Now, you asked about how I create balance and you talked about the challenges right now. And yeah, we could do a big podcast on this one because I've got a lot of them right now.
So I've got a significant personal life change.
And then I've got my mom who lives with me who is failing, you know, she's just failing. She had a stroke not that long ago, and she does live with me. And I have a father who lives up in New York. Why I'm so close to. And he is starting to fail, and he's been super healthy and it's been fast, you know, some things. So I've got like, oh, my God.
[00:24:36] Speaker B: And.
[00:24:37] Speaker A: And I'm running a business, you know, and our business is in a pretty aggressive growth mode and people look to me to lead that business.
So the first thing is, how am I balancing all this?
[00:24:50] Speaker B: Wait, you also have two daughters, too?
[00:24:53] Speaker A: Yes, I do. Ones upstairs, actually. And I've got my daughters. And it's. It's a lot, so. Oh, I've got my daughters and I have two sisters and one who just went through a very terrible personal tragedy. And, you know, it's like, you want to be there for your family, you want to be there for your children, you want to make sure that you're supporting them, you want to make sure you're supporting everyone else, right? And then it's like, who is supporting you? Right? It's like, oh, my God. And so the first thing is, I'll talk about on the work front, I think, because we're leading and building a really good team of people that we respect and we trust and we really appreciate and we try to let them know that, boy, are they really helping me right now. So they know. And I actually have people that are checking in on me and asking me what they can do to help through this time. And I was telling my partner today, I said, I Don't know what I would do without our team that we have right now. Because I got to tell you, they are helping me at work. They are holding me up because we have a lot of things that we're accomplishing right now. The other thing that's really important to me that does help me maintain the balance. It's just how I'm wired. I have to work out like whether it's just making time for that run.
I, you know, also I have two Jack Russell terriers. I just said I shut off. I know I shut off everyone in my life. And Friday night I'm going to tell you, I, you know, made like little salmon for dinner. I made the chicken for the dogs. Right. It was really late. I didn't care. I went upstairs on the couch. I got one dog here, one dog there and we watched African Queen together, you know, or out of Africa. Out of Africa.
[00:26:48] Speaker B: So you're doing, you're doing the, the me time is what my generation calls it.
Having to putting it on the calendar time for yourself.
[00:26:56] Speaker A: And you have to like. And for me it's like sanity and out of necessity because I'm getting calls at 3:00 clock in the morning, at 7:00am and not like all kinds of hours of the day right now. And so you have to just figure it out. And I think it's. Yeah, it's important.
[00:27:14] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean I kind of. That is one thing I love about Sellers Globe. You know they. I feel like you don't give us that flexibility to also have life outside of work. And I think it also comes with like return. Like you get a lot in return with that.
[00:27:30] Speaker A: So I'll tell you that what I'm always thinking about is for people that we. And look, we know that there are opportunities that. We're a small boutique consulting firm so we know there are opportunities at bigger companies for people that want a bigger company experience. Experience.
But what we do for the company of our size is. Okay, what is it that we. I try to think about each person as an individual and me and our, my business partner talk about that and say what's important to that person and then what can we do to help meet that, you know, that particular need. So everybody is not a one size fit all. And I think you all know that we also don't subscribe to, you know, there's this whole thing around how annual reviews go and this many people are below and this many people are at and this many people above. And you know, there's the whole distribution curve on These things, we don't subscribe to any of that. Everything is truly based on an individual and what they want to achieve. And then we try to listen really carefully to make sure that we're aligned with where they want to go and make sure it aligns with us.
And if it does, we just let it go. So.
[00:28:42] Speaker B: And Michelle, even though you're my boss, like, you probably know a lot about my personal life, which it kind of helps, you know, you know, build those relationships. I know that I can come to you, and I hope you know that you can come to me as well.
[00:28:56] Speaker A: So you probably know my house as well as I know my house, actually.
[00:29:01] Speaker B: Right.
I put some things up in here.
[00:29:08] Speaker A: I appreciate that, Avery. I actually really appreciate that feedback.
All right, so now we're gonna. We're gonna shift to a topic that is on top of everyone's mind, which is AI. AI is fascinating to me because I actually lived through the Internet, Right. Like, so I was in college when all that happened. And, you know, people were talking about this Internet thing, right. Because it was in the 90s, and it was pretty amazing what it did as far as changing how people engaged, how we research how work was being done.
And there was a lot of strange things back then about the Internet, what it was and wasn't going to do. And I would say a lot of that's going on about AI as well. So I'm going to start with this interesting question.
There are all kinds of rhetoric, conversation. Whether it's real, perceived, not about AI is going to eliminate all these jobs in the future. So let's just play this one out.
If AI, let's say, could do about 30% of your work. Right. So think about. Imagine five years from now, and let's
[00:30:20] Speaker B: say it'll be five years, but.
[00:30:22] Speaker A: Yeah, right.
It could be like next year, next month. Exactly. Because every day it's changing, and I would say it already is automating. You know, we've got it into our workflows. I would say that the consulting team, they are definitely AI natives. I think we're getting there on. I think we're actually getting there with the marketing team as well.
So if it. Let's assume it can do about 30% or. Or more of your work, how do you think that changes what's required for you? How do you differentiate and just what's required for you on your job and what skills become more important?
[00:31:01] Speaker B: Yeah. So, I mean, yeah, AI has became a big impact to our work. And I think the biggest thing is just making sure. You have those relationships and you're continuing to build those relationships. And it comes with, you know, communicating with others and getting that human interaction. Because AI is not going to take that. So those are the biggest skills. Like, we need to focus on and lean on time.
[00:31:25] Speaker A: When I think about our team and we got the consulting team, and then when I think about what you guys do, I've got an operations team, we got marketing, all those I think about it's people that are continuing to be curious. I know it sounds like such an overstated word, but it can't be. Like, I can't state it enough.
People that are curious and interested and want to try new things and just to innovate, that to me is the differentiator and how you can really build it into your workflows. And I do think to your point, the human interaction, the critical thinking, the how do I use this tool from my perspective, I think about it for me and I say, how can I use this to help me accelerate certain things that are more like administrative or
[00:32:17] Speaker B: prep or stuff that you don't want to do?
[00:32:19] Speaker A: Yeah. And focus on the things that will really drive the difference for the business.
[00:32:25] Speaker B: Yeah. I already feel like I use, I use it a lot in my workflows already, you know, creating captions for post and different things like that. But I feel like, I mean, I'm going to continue to get better in it and, you know, use it as a tool to help me be better.
But yeah, I still come back to, like, that human interaction as a way to, like, stand out when it comes to, like, you know, how do I differentiate myself from others? And everybody can use AI, but like, that human interaction and communication will be the thing that makes you different.
[00:33:00] Speaker A: What would you say to your colleagues, other people your age? And there is, there is a set of, of people that are anti AI. So what would you say to them when they're thinking about their own job in their own future?
[00:33:16] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, so there's two sides to everything. You know, one, the side that's anti AI, I mean, I think eventually they'll come around and they'll, you know, start using AI. They see that that is a useful tool, not necessarily going to take over their jobs, because I don't think that's going to happen, but I think we can all leverage it and use it as a tool.
All right, so this kind of leads into the next question I'm going to ask you, which is how should young professionals use AI without depending on it?
[00:33:46] Speaker A: Ooh. So the first Thing I'm going to tell you is that me as a leader, we know immediately if anyone has used AI and hasn't put in any of their critical thinking into it. It's so obvious.
So how do I think about it and what would I encourage people to think about is look at the different tools. Now we are really, I think, very fortunate because we're a smaller company, we're an innovative company. So I think people have access to more tools and like sandbox environments and opportunities to try different things. But what I would encourage them to think about, whether it's on their own time or whether they're using, you know, co pilot in the office, whatever it is, is that they think about what are the things in their work.
Only those things that are more like repetitive, administrative, easy, simple, time consuming though, right? And how can they leverage AI to help them with that?
And then every single time I do anything with an AI, anything, I validate and look at it. So what you have to be careful not to do is like just use it and then pass it on. A leaders know, anyone with any experience know. So that's a danger. And that's what I think that the, the challenge is going to be. People have said that it's going to level up the playing field and low performers are going to be brought up here. I don't think so. I think it's going to separate it. There'll be an initial rising of the tide, but I think there's going to be a greater separation and it's going to be those that are actually being innovative, creative and validating and building on it and not just doing that. So keep in mind, like where do I want to go with my career?
And just don't, just don't, just don't use it as the sole provider because it's wrong and makes mistakes. Think about it as being like an intern, right? Or an assistant that shows up. Well, that assistant might show up one day super hungover because it was out partying too much the night before. Then your work product is going to look very bad, right? And we know that AI has done that, so not been out drinking the night before, but basically has had times of non or low performance.
So Avery, when you think about your future career, and you might not, you might not know the answer to this yet, but when you think about it, what would you, not necessarily what would you want to be doing, but when you look back, you know, or you look forward 10 years, what would you want to say about where you are in your career? Like, what would you want to say? Are the things that you would aspire to? Not necessarily, like I said, like, what do you want to do? But what would you say would make it feel right?
[00:36:45] Speaker B: Yeah. So I think that's such a hard question because, like, a lot of us don't know what our futures look like or what we want to do.
[00:36:54] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:36:54] Speaker B: And so, you know, to say five years from now, I hope that, you know, in that five years I'm finding out, like, what I like and what I enjoy doing. And then hopefully by like year 10 or 15, like, by then we are, you know, doing the things that you enjoy, but like, helping others by that point grow and learn.
And I wish I could say, like, I would know what I'm doing, but like, we've kind of talked about, like, I don't know yet.
[00:37:21] Speaker A: So I think that's good. I think what you're saying, though, and I would. I would encourage you to stay true to your purpose, which is making sure that I'm doing something I enjoy along the way.
I'm making good money while I'm doing it, you know, because here's what I can tell you about myself. What I can tell you is I really love my career. I really love it. Like, I have something that as my children are growing up and leaving the house, you know, like they're starting their young adulthood.
I have a career that I still love. Right. So I'm not lost. I form something that's mine and I really enjoy it.
And I feel like it's financially rewarding at the same time. And I don't do it for the money.
I make good money doing something that I love, you know, so I was able to find that balance.
And that's, you know, I think making sure that I would encourage you to think about something that allows you to have something that's yours and, you know, you're continuing to enjoy it along the way and you still have that value and that purpose and.
Yeah. Yeah. It doesn't become a grind.
[00:38:33] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:38:33] Speaker A: And if something becomes a grind, then you need to think about.
Yes, that's right.
[00:38:39] Speaker B: Yeah. Put that work life balance in there.
[00:38:43] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:38:43] Speaker B: So which I think my generation is big on.
We like to make sure that we, you know, make time for out things outside of work. But.
[00:38:52] Speaker A: Yep.
And I don't know if it becomes about.
So somebody said to me, I've had so many different things about work life balance and the question around that. I think what you have to think about are what are my.
What are almost my boundaries around that because like, for me, owning my own business, heck, I could be working on stuff seven days a week. But I just make sure that it, if it's becoming overwhelming or a lot, I take time to go out and have that dinner or say like on Friday. Okay, I'm not touching work this weekend. I'm just not. Because I know when I wake up Monday morning at 5, I'll feel more energized. Right. Than if I just need that rest, go through it. Yep, yep.
[00:39:43] Speaker B: Okay. So as you know, I'm going back to school to get my master's. And I keep questioning like, is that the right choice? Am I making the right decision to do that? Is it going to be worth it in the end? And so my next question would be, is as a coo, when evaluating talent, do you wait, how much weight do you place on a college degree versus real world experience?
[00:40:06] Speaker A: So we like both.
But here's what I would ask you. And here's what I would ask you to think about when you're getting an advanced degree.
[00:40:15] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:40:16] Speaker A: Or any degree. Anyone.
So am I learning?
Is this fun?
You know, is it interesting? And do I really. I would really question, am I learning piece or am I doing it? Because I think it's something that I should do.
Now. When I went back to grad school, I learned things that I never learned in undergrad because it was all about business and international business and. And I was a language major. Like, it wasn't anything about international business and even the fundamentals of accounting. Now did I love taking accounting? Did I love taking some of the quantum physics courses and other things that I was taking and global economic courses.
Some of them I didn't like, but I loved every professor, meaning I didn't like it because I didn't have time. Right. With all the other stuff I was doing. And I wish, I actually wish I had had more time to get deeper into some of it. But I felt like I was really learning and so I was taking away things from that. So if you're not, I would ask you to question yourself around that. So think about it more from my perspective. Think about it more of is it enhancing me in my career now? Recently? It was maybe a year or so ago.
No, it was a couple years ago now. I went back to MIT and I took, you know, a couple courses in AI and I learned a lot. And I was there to learn. I had a really specific goal in mind. Right. It wasn't about advancing my career or anything. It was educating myself so I could Bring a strategy to our company, an AI strategy that I thought made sense.
So from our perspective, based on who we hire.
Yeah, we like to. To have people that are degreed. But is it required, you know, for certain jobs? Absolutely not.
And the real world experience always matters more. It's weighted heavier to me than any courses that you can take in college.
So I don't really look at that. I look at having the conversation. So let's talk about what I look at when we hire. Right. I'm not looking at. Unfortunately, when you're looking at a resume, all that comes to light. Right. But I'm looking at cultural fit. I'm looking at innovation, creativity. You know, do you have. Do you have the smarts to do the job? Like, do you have it because you got to have it or you're not going to make it? Particularly on the consulting side, because the consultants will eat you up if they do not think that you know how to do the job of consulting.
[00:43:03] Speaker B: Right.
[00:43:04] Speaker A: Because it takes a team.
So I look at things like teamwork and, you know, ability to pitch in and help others and contribute.
And to me, that really matters more.
So it's not, do I have a degree?
But it's more like, what is that degree doing for me?
[00:43:24] Speaker B: I think that's great. Yeah. I guess that kind of is my next question of like, do you think a master's is, like, different from a bachelor's?
[00:43:34] Speaker A: It is. So from my perspective now, I chose a specific program and it was an executive program, MBA program. And I chose it because it was so different than the undergrad experience, because these were people that were already running divisions of companies.
And every case study and every single thing that we did at Emory was based on something at our own organization.
So you got to pick projects that you were going to work on based on what was going on in your business. So I talked to another division at the company that I was working at. They wanted to launch a new product. I'm like, hey, can I bring this whole product launch into the classroom and we'll come up with like a campaign and some ideas. So we were able to take it back. And that was super fun. And I had people from. On my particular work team from UPS and Coca Cola and really big company names like that, and we were able to work on projects from that company. So it made it more almost like real world experience.
And that's what I think grad school does. Undergrad, at least when I went. And I don't know if it's changed, but undergrad it was more about covering these core courses and making sure that now, as a language arts major, you covered this level of literature. Right. You had this much of history there. You know, it was a. A pretty regimented program.
[00:45:04] Speaker B: Yeah. I. I will say, though, I feel like college has changed a lot, just, you know, with the technology and stuff. So, like, now I feel like, you know, a lot of my schoolwork, all my schoolwork for my master's is online, so it's very different. I don't really get that interaction with, you know, others, but I still have, like, team projects that I'm working on. It's just like, we have to do it through zoom calls and different things like that. But I think that the college has changed a lot. So that's why I was kind of questioning, like, does it still matter?
[00:45:34] Speaker A: Yeah.
How do you feel about the courses you're taking right now and the experience so far?
[00:45:42] Speaker B: I mean, personally, I feel like I could definitely do a lot more.
I feel like if I had more time or allowed myself to. More time to actually study more, like, that's where AI comes in a lot. And I. And I actually utilize it to not take my test, but, like, to help me study and, like, it helps, you know, gather all my notes together and kind of just give me a rundown and it's. I utilize it there, but I wish I just had more time to do more.
[00:46:11] Speaker A: Yeah, but I hear you. So.
But being able to lean into AI has helped you at least organize. Yeah. So, yeah, I would encourage you to spend as much time as you can on that, because that was the same thing with this MIT course. I was kind of, like, frustrated because they had it go by so fast, and I wanted to go so deep and understand so much, and I barely had time to do that. And I was putting my whole weekend and my evenings into this, and I still wasn't getting through everything that, you know, I really wanted to. Okay, Avery, this could be probably the most important question that I will ask you on this podcast.
And it's kind of like what I close every interview with in our consulting practice, which is this. What is it that I might not have even asked you yet? What is it that you would want leaders to most know about what is important to people of your generation? What would you want to tell them?
[00:47:12] Speaker B: Yeah, so I think there's a misconception that Gen Z does not work hard or that we're lazy. And I think the reality behind it is that we. We question the traditional ways of doing things because. And it might come off disrespectful, but that's because we want to know the reasoning behind why we're doing the work we're doing. And I also think, you know, our generation is asking, you know, for pay raises, but our generation has been through 2 inflation. So the economy is a little bit different for our generation. So it's not necessarily that we think we deserve the pay raise. It's more of, like, a want and a need that. So we can survive this economy. And I think we're also very big on the work life balance, so we put those boundaries in place to, you know, make sure we have time for ourselves outside of work.
[00:48:03] Speaker A: And, yeah, I think it's rational, and I think you've given leaders something really good to think about.
[00:48:11] Speaker B: Thank you.
[00:48:12] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:48:13] Speaker B: All right, that kind of leads into the last and final question, which is, what are some things no one tells you about navigating the corporate world?
[00:48:21] Speaker A: Oh, my gosh, there are so many things. Okay, so the first thing is when I first got into corporate, right? So now I'm an entrepreneur. Not, you know, not the same as, like, when I think about corporate America, I'm thinking about public and private companies, but bigger companies.
I thought you, if you're smart and you work hard and you just do your job, you will be recognized and you'll be promoted. And it is so much more than that. What I have found is the single most important thing for anyone at any point in their career is to make good relationships and what I would call alliances within the company. But really, please make them true. So develop relationships very early on, which a lot of us don't do. I did not early on in my career. I just. Because I was working, you know, and I had a heavy load and I was just working to get that work done, and I'm like, oh, it'll just be recognized. But building the relationships early on and. And going broad and feel free to do the things like, hey, is there an opportunity for us to meet with, I don't know, the vice president of sales and have a lunch and go to your boss and say, let's have, like a little brown bag, you know, lunch with that person, because you'll be surprised at how they are happy to talk to you. They just don't really. It's not top of mind for them.
So I would say building alliances, getting a mentor really, really early on in your career, those are absolutely key. And yeah, still really do very good work. But know that it's more than just doing really good work. I think it's also really important, at least from my perspective, is to be able to have that critical mind to don't just question things. Right. So the. I would say the. Another really good piece of advice is don't raise a problem without bringing a solution.
So just say, like, here are some things that maybe there's a situation or, you know, but always have in your mind potential solutions as well. So leaders love to hear that, and even if they can't do it, they'll remember that the next time. So it won't be seen as a complaint, but really an opportunity to improve something that you see.
[00:50:51] Speaker B: Okay, I think that's great advice. You know, I'm going to take all this advice honestly and apply it to everything that I'm doing now. So I hope to be like you. You're. You're my role model.
[00:51:00] Speaker A: Oh, my God, that's so nice, Avery. Well, I'm going to take some of the feedback that you did, record it, put it into your review. No, no.
In all seriousness, though, I really.
I am pretty privileged that you came to do this podcast with me because I like to get the feedback, and I really want to understand what's important to young people as we're continuing to build the organization. So thank you for your time as well.
[00:51:27] Speaker B: Thank you.
