Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Like, didn't know about bitcoin or cryptocurrency.
[00:00:03] Speaker B: Like, years ago, the summer, and one of my brothers, he's a, he's a techie guy, and he just reached out and said, sis, you need to get into this thing called bitcoin. I was like, bit what?
[00:00:15] Speaker A: Run toward the unknown.
When you're riding the big wheel, you're not alone.
Welcome to Riding the Big Wheel. Today's guest is digital sales and marketing executive Sonia Dumas. Sonia is a successful entrepreneur dedicated to helping businesses succeed and succeed faster. Among her many accomplishments, she is founder and host of Income Inbox, a platform designed to drive revenue through AI driven marketing solutions. On this podcast, we are going to demystify crypto. You think we can do this? I don't know. Everybody's asking. So I said, I've got this fascinating woman coming on the podcast. You all are going to love Sonia Dumas. She, like, didn't know about bitcoin or cryptocurrency, like, years ago. But because this is what I want you to tell the story because of your curiosity and, you know, continuous learning, you not only learned, but you made a business out of it, right? You were consulting companies in this. So I want to talk about that. I would love for you to have a discussion around that. And then we're going to get into like, what the heck? Because you talk about cryptocurrency, I'm in again. I'm going to quote you, it is not just an investment.
You said it's about access, ownership and freedom. And I loved that. So I latched right onto that one. But let's just start with, you know, how you got into crypto. What that was like, Yeah, I think it's fascinating meeting.
[00:01:54] Speaker B: So interesting enough.
So we have to go back to 2019. It was a summer, and one of my brothers, he's a, he's a techie guy, and he just reached out and said, sis, you, you need to get into this thing called bitcoin. I was like, bit what?
What are we talking about? He said, yeah, but you gotta do all this thing. You gotta go to the secret room to get. I was like, you already lost me.
So I was like, no, I'll. I'll get back to you, bro. I don't, I don't play Fortnite, so I don't know, like, I don't even have a gaming console. I even know where to go to get this thing. But so that happened. Then a couple of weeks later in LinkedIn, a crypto coach popped up in my feed. And I was like, is AI listening? What's happening here? And so I was like, okay, my brother just told me about this and now this guy is in my feed. I've never seen this guy before. So I started to. So I looked into his profile deeper and he's been in crypto since I believe it's 2017.
No, no, no. Way back, I think it was like, yeah, around 2017. And I said, you know what, let me learn about this because it's no coincidence that two people in a short amount of time. So I'm going to pay attention to this. And I just started to learn and I immediately saw the financial impact, like almost instantly. I was like, oh my gosh, this has changed the world. Let me learn about this. So I started learning December of 2019.
So then 2020 kicks in and I had a whole lot of time to do some research because 29, 2020 kicked in and I learned some things I didn't have. So in 2020, when, you know, the world was shutting down, I lost 90% of my clients. Not because of anything I did, but I can tell you nobody was thinking about sales and marketing campaigns. They were not, they were not thinking about that. And so 90% of my businesses just went to a screeching halt. And one, I was not, I wasn't as prepared as I thought I was. I was like, this was never on my game plan. World's shutting down, I need to add that to the list now.
On the list. And. But what it taught me was the importance of having a multi revenue business, but also having multiple streams of income come in. So it wasn't any coincidence. I was learning about crypto at the same time. And so I just started diving into Bitcoin and Ethereum and those were the two main ones at the time. And I was like, all right, I'm going to do my first investment. And I think my first investment was like $5,000. 3,000 went to Bitcoin, 2,000 went to Ethereum. I said, all right. And the coach at the time, he said, come in, buy on a Monday. No, no, no, buy Sunday night. And he said, and you're going to sell sometime either Monday or Tuesday afternoon. I was like, wow, 48 hours. Okay. I was like, okay, am I a day trader now? I don't know what.
So I did it. And at that time the market moved and I made 34% in 24 hours.
[00:05:10] Speaker A: Wow.
[00:05:11] Speaker B: And I was like, there are financial advisors that if they can get you 12%, they are knocking it out of the park. And I said, whoa, whoa, what, what is this? This? And I was like, did this just happen? And it was like, okay, I got to get out, I got to get the money back.
I was like, what is this? But then you kept going. I kept going and I kept learning. And then I got exposed to DeFi and NFTs. And then I learned what it means when Bitcoin goes down. Oh, it's a, it's a brutal ride. And when it goes up, it's a phenomenal ride as well. But what I was recognizing is that a couple of things, I'm like, one, I haven't been into a bank branch in years. I said, we are already living in a digital currency world. It's just how is it managed right now, Right? Like, what are the systems it's managed on? And blockchain allows for it to be a lot more secure, traceable, and it becomes a new basically currency.
But what's interesting about cryptocurrency, or I would call it, you know, really, it's digital currency, is that you can now attach assets to it. So that was the next big mind blower to say, okay, right now if you wanted to, for instance, you know, invest in a, like a real estate trust, you need a certain amount, they only take a certain level investors, you gotta be accredited. But any company, and this, they're working on this even more is they can package real estate projects, put it into a digital asset, and as long as the SEC rule still allows for it now the general public can buy it, you can buy these assets, you can cash in, you can cash out. They can, they have, they can. Interest is given in real time. And so it now allows you to package assets, so artwork. So maybe you can't afford the, or maybe you don't want to pay for the full Van Gogh, but you can pay for a fractional the Van Gogh. And as the price appreciates, you can sell your coin or your share in that. But you know, we usually call them coins, right, your nft.
And so it's making a surgeons because it's been going through these up and down cycles, but adoption hasn't stopped. It's just been refined. And so I look, as we live in a fully digital world, AI is only going to increase, I would say, speed up the process. And so, you know, you look at things like, you know, currently the stock market, the majority of the stock market is already traded by bots and algorithms. It's not people calling their brokers anymore. I'm logging in To Charles Schwab to sell. It's bots and algorithms that are being finely tuned to say if the market shifts, we're buying, we're selling, we're shorting. And that's coming into. And then we're now adding new assets, you know, called Bitcoin, Etherium, Solana, Ada, xrp. Right. We're now adding these digital assets. But there's going to be more digital assets and opportunities to say, oh, I want in on that development that's happening. I want in on that artwork. I went in on that rare car collection. Right. I went in on that experience that we can put into a digital asset and then sell to the public. So it's a new level of merchandising for sure.
[00:08:21] Speaker A: Interesting. So if I was, if I had, you know, $5,000 or you know, $1,000 or I'm taught you're now talking to some an audience here that said, okay, I want to get in. But like, okay, why does it matter? Why should I really care? Why do I want in? You mentioned we're already in a digital world. But talk to me about like why really? Why do I want that Instead of my cash in the wall, I just made up cash in the wall. That's a New York thing.
[00:08:54] Speaker B: I get it.
Mary, Queen of the South.
Very Queen of the South. I know, me too. Right. Cash gold.
So you have to go down the road a couple of things. Okay, let's go back to 2000, right. Where companies like Amazon and Google they were $2 2000, two to four dollars per share.
Did you buy.
We didn't even know what Amazon was really doing. Google was emailing.
[00:09:31] Speaker A: That's right.
[00:09:32] Speaker B: Like, like Gmail in one one search box. Like nobody knew what would they were about. If we really understood it, we would have been buying it like crazy. And so.
[00:09:42] Speaker A: Right.
[00:09:42] Speaker B: I look at it as approach. I approach investments like a venture capitalist early technology or an early mar. Early entrance to market to something that is not going to stop anytime soon. So hence why, you know, you call it the dot com bubble. Well, why was it a bubble? Because people that investors were getting in early on a movement in technology that was moving forward. But what companies would survive it? Nobody really knows. Right. No one knew.
[00:10:13] Speaker A: Right.
[00:10:14] Speaker B: And so every. I look at every new emergence of technology has a bubble. Because in the beginning we know this is not going to go away. This is going to become a foundational part of society in business at some point. But the tough part is what companies am I going to write? Like what horses am I going to be betting on. Right.
[00:10:33] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:10:33] Speaker B: And at that time, if we knew what Amazon and Google were doing, we would have bought the $2 to $4.
[00:10:38] Speaker A: Yeah, right.
[00:10:40] Speaker B: Point when, you know, with, you know, bitcoin, like, like bitcoin, Ethereum, they used to be at $3,000. They actually started 10 cents.
[00:10:49] Speaker A: Yeah, right.
[00:10:50] Speaker B: They used to be. Now it's like last time I checked, $80,000 now for Bitcoin. Yeah. Like not even two, three years ago, it was 10,000.
Right. So at the end of the day, it's looking at.
Yes, there's a thing of being.
There's early, there's too early, there's. I'm just riding the wave and being able to survive the wave of who survives and who doesn't. And right now, now the big players, who's going to survive is coming to the surface a lot more than even a year or two ago. And so I look at it as, how do you leverage? It's the, it's the early ones who make the most.
[00:11:29] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:11:30] Speaker B: Because by the time you buy Apple, Tesla, Google, today, you're paying premium prices, you know, your return unless there's a major spike. There's too many people on the playing field at this point. So increments are smaller. The big uptick happens in the early adoption stage of pretty much any major technological shift or investment shift. That's not a joke. That's not tulips and coconut beans. Right? Coconut.
[00:11:57] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly.
[00:11:58] Speaker B: You know, we're beyond that.
[00:12:00] Speaker A: Yep. So then would you suggest that people are. Where, where do you think we are in the crypto? Investment. It seems like it's a good time or people should consider still getting in there. I don't think we've hit the Tesla status yet, but where do you think we are?
[00:12:19] Speaker B: Where are we there? I would say we're in this, I would call it quiet adoption zone because the adoption's been happening. Like MicroStrategy bought, I don't know what the article is, another $40 billion in Bitcoin or something. 40 million. They've been buying up for years now. Michael Saylor, you know, he's just been ahead of the game for a long time as a company buying bitcoin as a part of their treasury reserve. Like, wow, that is a company plus whatever they're, whatever they're doing individually. And so I look at it as what's now happened, especially with how the current administration is making this a very pro Crypt. Embracing it.
[00:13:03] Speaker A: Right.
[00:13:04] Speaker B: What's happening now is now institutions. So it always starts at the Highest level. So the Blackrocks of the world, the Bridgewaters, they're creating packages around crypto or I was around digital assets that soon will become to the retail market. And once it gets to the retail market, you're paying premium prices. You know, there are companies like Coinbase that says, hey, you could buy direct through us and you know you can have, you could house your own but then you know, you have to keep it safe. Right. So about security, you know, crypto NFTs. Right. Digital asset. Not enough to use that EFTs.
Those are there. They're going to be those. Who says okay, I would, I'd rather pray a premium but have it as a EFT because I'm comfortable with that.
[00:13:47] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:13:47] Speaker B: So we're in this adoption where I would say the top are still buying and they're positioning themselves because Matt, I would say the mass market retail has not flooded in just yet.
[00:14:02] Speaker A: Okay. All right. So there's still a chance.
So as a, as a venture capitalist in your mind then what are the other things that you're looking at that you're investing in or that you're thinking about to invest in over the next year or now what are you doing?
[00:14:21] Speaker B: So you know, it's interesting. It's. What's on my horizon is a couple of things. I would definitely say real estate, but waiting for that bubble.
[00:14:31] Speaker A: Yeah, you and me both, girlfriend. I am too because I like it.
[00:14:36] Speaker B: Also, also heading into a time where investors can actually invest based on their personality, their style, what, what they enjoy versus no, you got to get into bonds. I don't, I don't want bonds. Yeah, right. Like I, I, I'll buy gold instead and just Y. Right. But put it in the wall next.
[00:14:55] Speaker A: To the hey, you sound like me. Yeah, but no, nothing is in the wall.
[00:15:00] Speaker B: Nothing is in nothing.
But, but I, so I also like to invest based on what I love. Right. So when I say I love hotels. Right. So I, and what I love is that more hotel companies are now looking at digital assets to be able to open the opportunities to invest in. Because I'm looking at hospitality, travel, leisure as, as my, I would say main areas because yes, the market is going to go through a massive job career like companies and business models are going to be, are going to be flipped and turned upside down and inside out. But here's what I know. Human the ones with the money, so hence go higher. Right. So you're affluent, you're high net worth individuals. They always want to spend and have experiences just because AI changes The job market changes how you, how you are, how competitive you are in the market. It doesn't change the fact that after you get the money and yes, you put some aside and you save, at some point you're going to want to spend it on an experience, on a thing, on a toy, on travel. And so that industry is also going to become hyper niche and attract a higher level of clientele. And so I want to invest in the experiential business. And so that's a part of my stretch. So it's not just am I doing blue chips and tech companies, I'm looking at how Financial Times calls it, how to spend it, where are they going to spend it Because I want to invest in those companies that they're going to spend it on or I want to early investor in those experiences.
[00:16:39] Speaker A: That is really good advice. Now I got a question for you because I also, when I travel I seek out the boutique hotels. Absolutely. Over the big ones, you know, and I'm, and I'm a Bonvoy, you know, when they always say Bonvoy. Right. So I still am faithful, but I do prefer the boutique hotel. But you know, I also do love, particularly when I'm traveling abroad, vrbo, Airbnb, because I like the space for those two and you know, three week time periods. So I'm curious how you feel about Airbnb VRBO versus boutique hotel. It's just a personal thing I wanted to ask you about and you know, like what's the place for each, you know, do you think that vrbo Airbnb has it actually cannibalized some of the business or taken away some of the business, I should say, from the boutique hotel business. Like, like they said happened in the taxi business. Right. So what do you think? What do you think?
[00:17:47] Speaker B: It's so fascinating you should say that because. So one of the things I like to do because I do track Airbnb and VRBO is I like to go to their job careers. Okay, what careers are they, you know, promoting out in the market to say, hey, we need to fill this position. And in this was about maybe three or four weeks ago. They are, they have quite a few market managers that they're going after businesses for executive travel. I said, oh, so job boards. Because that tells me what products and services are now being offered that they need a person to fulfill that role for. And so I was like, oh, very interesting. They are also working with Airbnb, I believe they're, I think it's called Hotels tonight. They basically have a Hotel app that says, hey, you can, you know, get a hotel tonight. So they're also an owner in that. I want to make sure I get that right.
Whatever that app is, to say, hey, you want to stay at a hotel tonight? It's going to be the best rate. And so they also had managers that says, hey, go talk to the hotels to have them come on our app, our platform. So what's actually happening is it's more of an Expedia, TripAdvisor, trivago, where the hotel industry, it's not so much that it's being cannibalized as more as it's about. At first, it was about being cannibalized, like hotel or Airbnb. But now Airbnb is partnering with hotels because at the end of the day, who are they focused on? You? Me.
[00:19:23] Speaker A: Right.
[00:19:23] Speaker B: Traveler. And they know we want experiences instead of saying, either or, it's now. And, hey, you can stay at a hotel because we own the platform that you're buying on, and we're getting our commission, our fees. Right. So they're. They're getting paid that way. But then it's also the hotel benefits. So hotels are actually in an interesting space right now because in the hotel, in the hospitality world, direct bookings, every company wants a direct. You know, every hotel brand wants direct bookings because that means that's a fee they don't have to pay to the Expedias TripAdvisors. Right. AirBnBs of the world. But the issue is the small boutique brand doesn't have enough of an audience reach. So they are. They do have to work with the, you know, the. Oh, they're not. Not OTCs, but basically, you know, the. Oh, gosh, Yeah.
[00:20:16] Speaker A: I use booking.com and I have found the best boutique hotels, particularly outside of the US the best. That never would have hit my radar ever.
[00:20:27] Speaker B: Exactly. And so at the end of the day, it comes down to you have to look at their business model, reach. How do you increase reach? Well, yeah, you got it. You have to now go on a platform that feed, like, I really love TripAdvisor. What they did. Because if you look at the early stages of TripAdvisor, it was just really to check out the reviews of a hotel. Now you can, you know, do the same thing. With booking.com, you can do the entire. Your. Your entire reservations and all of your bookings from one place. And they built up the audience. The name of the game is audiences. So when you were talking about, you know, how do businesses position themselves you have to find a way to get as far as, one, building up your own audience, your specific niche audience. But two, we're also heading into a time that I would say for the first time in history, almost every business that's a serious business will need to turn on ads, because your reach. So we've never all, like, tell me a time in business where everybody's been an advertiser. No, it's tv, radio, newspapers, magazines, and it was usually only for. That's why the big brands are the big brands, because they could afford to be in those spaces. Well, now, if I just got a notification from LinkedIn, hey, you want to do LinkedIn ad marketing, right? Like, so at the end of the day, if you want reach you, it's called always on. You now have your business now has to be always on. But turning on ads doesn't make sense until you have figured out your organic strategy. Because if your organic strategy isn't even pulling anyone in, ads is not about to help you.
And so this way it goes back to your audience, your content. Because ads only ramp up exposure to what you're putting out there. And if what you're putting out there isn't already generating business, then you need to fix that before you turn on ads. And ads are like, you know, like, I was working with a client and you know, they had well over like a million subscribers. And that would seem amazing, but any given post would be exposed to less than a thousand people.
And I was like, yes, yes, because once again, less, way less than 10%. And it depends, like, there were a couple of posts, it was like four to five thousand, but a million, A million. You would see hundreds of thousand. But the way the algorithms are working, I said, you know what? And I was talking with a friend, I said, I could turn on. I could spend $100 in ads and get exposure to anywhere from 12 to 15,000 guaranteed my post in front of 12 to 15,000 for $100. This one did it for free and got exposed to less than a thousand. And, and we don't even know what they were going to do with, with that in the content was as such that it was like, okay, well where are you taking people?
[00:23:19] Speaker A: So that is interesting For a small.
[00:23:22] Speaker B: Business that is narrowed in and they're great at their organic content. Ads is going to move you a lot faster. So it doesn't matter. So I, you know, I talk with speakers and consultants. They're like, I only got like, you know, 1500 people follow me. I said, let's Nail your organic because we can turn on ads and get you in front of 30, 000 people for a hundred to $200 while it's still cheap on LinkedIn. Like last time it was less than six cents of you. That is cheap. You're never going to see it that much cheaper because as more businesses, especially on LinkedIn, start using ads, it's going to go to the Google Ad days. Now you're paying $20 a click, $50 a click. The industry, they pay a ridiculous amount, but they got deep pockets and so they can spend.
There was this one company, they were spending $900,000 a month on Google Ads just to brute force their way to the top. But they were also selling $50,000 packages on the back end. So it was worth it to them. But the small guy, you ain't got a mill, almost a million a month in ads. So that model of Google Ads is now moving to LinkedIn. It's. But it hasn't ramped up. And then I just posted about this. Apple has now changed their Apple search ads to Apple ads. Apple will now be a lot will. Apple ads is about to take off as well because that whole thing about privacy and data. No, no. Apple is seeing the money being made with ads and they're like. And Apple has one of the most affluent, wealthiest clienteles out there. Like I was.
[00:24:55] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:24:56] Speaker B: And all of that. Like, like, look, if you, you're, you're the best of the best. You have Apple. Right.
[00:25:01] Speaker A: And so that's amazing. I. Yeah. Do you. Are you catching this? Parker? I'm talking to my marketing team and asking them. This is really great practical advice. Now I got something I want to ask you about because this is my. I got a beef with LinkedIn. I just do. My beef with LinkedIn is because I feel like it's becoming the next Facebook. I am not on Facebook. Like, I love to go to LinkedIn for, you know, connecting with people, hearing about what's going on in their business. I absolutely appreciate. And we post it too, if we've got team dinners and what's going on.
However, that said, there's a lot of personal stuff coming out there now that I really, I, I find myself going out to LinkedIn less. And so I would love to hear what your perspective is on that. And I'm surprised LinkedIn is going that route because, you know, we got TikTok, we've got Instagram, we've got all these other avenues. And I realize younger people are growing up who grew up in this social world. But is there a place that we can just keep business? I don't. I would love to hear your perspective. And maybe it's all about the human element, but tell me what you think.
[00:26:15] Speaker B: So, yeah, so there's some things to that. So, you know, I call it the social media economy and it's big business.
There was. Oh, gosh.
Yeah. Actually, I did post this a couple of weeks ago. I said LinkedIn and two images. And one of the images I showed was that LinkedIn's growth is incredible. I also showed that LinkedIn's audience is now 24. Seven people have. About half of LinkedIn's audience is on social LinkedIn Saturdays and Sundays. And that was positioning to say you have to post every day, even Saturdays and Sundays, because that's when people are showing up. Their ad business has gone through the roof to the tune of billions, billion. And it's been a slow sleep. It's been a sleeper platform until now because to your point, yes, that next generation has grown up. They're now in their 30s right there. You know, they're heading into their 30s, early 40s. And at the end of the day, they either want jobs, they want to go to the next level in their career. Not about to do that on Facebook.
That's just real. Right. So now they're. So whatever they were doing on other platforms, yes, they're bringing here and you know what you. Whether it's their personal life. But at the end of the day, LinkedIn is a business and they are in the business of maximizing every avenue possible. And they saw how well video worked with TikTok. But what's interesting as of now is that I, I've done some experimenting with video versus doing posts versus doing carousels. And there is a difference in how people react and respond.
And I'm. I'm on the fence with video because I had an epiphany with some of the. The results that even I get. And I was like, oh, my gosh, my. My single image or my carousels do way better than the videos. The videos still do well. But I was like, interesting, because, yeah, one of the things that I found that some of us maybe have forgotten is that one of the major reasons that people come to LinkedIn and you can Google this is that they come for news.
And that still exists. You're coming for news. So if you're not showing up with news, then what are you showing up with? Usually a pitch, usually, oh, look at me, I'm at this place doing this thing.
Okay. But what does that have to do with me and my problems in my business?
[00:28:49] Speaker A: Right?
[00:28:50] Speaker B: And if you want it, had some of the best B2B data, period.
And more. CEOs are talking. The billionaires and the multimillionaires are now talking. They were both silent for 60 years, and now they're talking. So you can't avoid this space. But what is this space going to be like? At one point, LinkedIn was doing, like, clubhouse with the audio rooms. They did that, and it didn't really work out. They got rid of that. You know, they have the LinkedIn lives. Some are doing okay with it, others are not. And so I look at LinkedIn, they're in a playground zone right now. To say one, this new audience that is more serious about businesses coming on online, but they're also coming from the Instagram crowd. This is the new money that's showing up. But at the end of the day, business still has to get done and there's still big business problems out there. So in what way do you need to show up? And I think that's what we're. We're figuring out. I would say that I do find that carousels and image posts, because we are, I call it Slider Nation. We're the PowerPoint generation. We still love ourselves some PowerPoint. We love ourselves some slideshows. It's like, look, we. And. And that goes Gen Z Millennial Boomer. Like my nieces. I said, I was talking to my nieces and I said, girls, what, you know, what did you do in class today? Oh, we're giving slides. We're doing slideshows about our teachers. Make this. I said, so even my Gen Z nieces are living in slides.
[00:30:18] Speaker A: Yeah, that's great.
[00:30:19] Speaker B: So I was like, okay, we're. We're. So LinkedIn is slide the PowerPoint generation. We still, every speaker, every consultant, we all got slides for days, and we love it. And so I look at every post as, oh, it's a mini slide. I was like, oh, my God. When that, like, turned on for me, I was like, got it. So I like, I can drink in video. But Slider Nation, this LinkedIn is Slider Nation. But it's now then. Okay, now let's use these posts as many slides to highlight the pain, the problem for the particular audience. And the other thing with LinkedIn, what I love is if you use it smartly and strategically, you should be. Your target audience, should be adding following you every day. Like I, on any given day, you know, I have new followers because I put In a system that's not pitchy, it's all about, how do I. You don't know I exist. So how can I do this organically First. And once I dial in the organic formula, ads are going on and you're about to see, like you were saying, I'm seeing you everywhere. And that's how organic. I haven't even turned on ads. When I turn on ads, I'm going to be on your tv, I'm going to be on your. I watch, you're going to see me. I'm going to be on a, what they call those Goodyear balloons. Like, okay, she is now official, actually, everywhere.
[00:31:48] Speaker A: That's really funny. I want to see your face on one of those Goodyear balloons during the Super Bowl. But maybe it'll be you and I, both of us, and we're going like, we did it. We did it with crypto.
[00:32:01] Speaker B: I know. And at that point. Yeah. When you become your a crypto million, you keep that to yourself. Like, oh, yeah, I was one of the luxury brands. Who was it? Anyways, they mentioned we're heading into a time what they call quiet luxury.
[00:32:17] Speaker A: And I said, oh, I read about.
[00:32:19] Speaker B: This and I love. And I love. I was like, oh, I love that. Even how it sounds where luxury isn't as blingy as before. I mean, and if it is you, you're not luxury and you're just letting us know you're not.
[00:32:33] Speaker A: Right.
[00:32:34] Speaker B: But whatever. Right, but, but then there's that audience for that.
[00:32:38] Speaker A: Right?
[00:32:38] Speaker B: So it's like I can't even judge because I'm like, no, no, there's an audience that loves that.
[00:32:42] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:32:43] Speaker B: And you're getting paid. Good for you. My audience, where we're quiet luxury, we do things in a certain way, but we're not going to let you know at what. How we're doing it. But you're just going to know, oh, yeah, they're traveling, they're doing some things that, yeah, it's luxurious.
[00:33:00] Speaker A: I'm telling you, we live in different states, but we have a lot in common. So I have a feeling you and I are becoming good friends.
So I want to talk a little bit about your personal life. You are a very successful businesswoman, I believe.
I believe you see this. You're successful, you're all over the place. You have founded companies. I mean, that's amazing. You're a sought after speaker. Your authority on sales and marketing. You are all over the place. And so a couple things I want to ask you because we like to talk about this Stuff on riding the big wheel, what would you say would be some of the challenges that you faced and some things that maybe, you know, like, it looks like it's easy, but it's not. Right. And so what advice would you give to people? It was interesting you mentioned about needing the detox after traveling and having a really hard job and going to Colorado and spending time there. It's. It's very funny because I have a nephew. He went through the exact same experience. Right. His first job was during the Pandemic, and he was a recent college grad, had graduated that year during Pandemic, and after, you know, a year and a half of just being, like, a programmer sitting alone in an apartment with no friends out in the Midwest, he was so burnout, and he ended up quitting his job, going to Denver, chopped wood. You know, I mean, it was like he said, I just need to be out and breathe and get me out of here. Right. To kind of get his head back together. So, anyway, I know that it's not as easy as it seems, and I'd love you to talk about some of the big challenges, things you've learned and you want others to know about.
[00:34:46] Speaker B: So, yeah, I have a strong personality to begin with, so Hotel Development groomed me because not only am I working with designers, but I'm also working with the C suite, but I'm also working with contractors with high machismo. Like, you're not about to PC this crowd. So I got to show with donuts and coffee so we can get my truck of expensive furniture to show up. So I learned how to people. I just learned how to understand people. And what I've understood over time is that people want to be respected. They want to look good in front of others. They want the spotlight on them. And so as long as you don't care about the spotlight not being on you, it makes it super easy to shine the spotlight on others so you could accomplish your goal. See, if you want to accomplish your goal and you want the spotlight on you, that's where you're going to have the challenges, because somebody else wants that shine. I know I'm shiny, but that's just lighting, y'all.
[00:35:45] Speaker A: No, you look beautiful. You look beautiful. Yeah. I think that's probably one of the best pieces of advice ever.
As a consulting organization. I tell the team, look, it's really easy. At the end of the day, let's look at who our client is, the problem they have to solve for, and how do you make them successful? How do you make them look good no matter what. It's not about you. It's about them.
[00:36:11] Speaker B: All about that. I learned this in going back to my hospitality days. A lot of times when clients came to us, we were like their third consultant because they'd fired so many. Everybody was failing them. Contractors failing them, corporate office failing them, just interior designer failing them. So when we came in, it was like, okay, we're giving you a chance. But they were expecting failure. They were expecting us to mess up like everybody else. And so I recognized that, and I said, okay. So I would always have. In the first conversations, I would say it. I'm here to make you look good. And we're going to open this hotel, and it's going to be incredible. Okay. All right. We'll see.
I knew that by my second hotel. I realized it took me four months to prove it, because they're watching. So basically 90 days. And what I'm looking for is there are three words that I made sure to hear within that four months. I trust you.
If you can get that within three months or four months. And that was me showing up week after week proactively saying, you know what? You don't have to reach out to me for a report. I'm already going to send it to you. Do you want it once or twice a week? Oh, no. Oh, let me do two. And then by week three, I only need it once on Fridays. Okay, great. Got that right. If. If there was any issue that I would saw that I would proactively see. And what. What allowed me to get the trust was I was proactive. I said, hey, this is coming down the pipeline. Are you aware about, you know, are you aware of this? What do you want me to do? How do you want me to react? Or, this has nothing to do with me right now, but six months later, it is going to impact. And all of that proactiveness would eventually lead to the I trust you moment. And when that moment happens, the relationship takes off, because I am now empowered to make decisions that they know is in their best interest. And I don't have to be micromanaged. My team doesn't have to be micromanaged. And so that's a part of what I learned from the hospitality side. So then when I got into, you know, blockchain and cryptocurrency and, you know, different levels of branding and marketing and sales, what I realized is that one. When you know your topic. So I was. I didn't find issues with me being a woman talking about crypto and. And Digital assets to the financial industry. Right. Which is predominantly male. Right. And very tough. Right. Like, like I said, no emotional reaction, at least not while I'm on stage.
None. But afterwards, oh my gosh, that was so great.
And so what I learned is that the respect was there because I knew myself stuff. I knew more than they knew. I. And not only did I knew it, I had skin in the game. I was going through the ups and downs. I was like on the forefront and they weren't. So you can't, you could, you couldn't out talk me about crypto. And well, you know this.
I'm like, I already know that because what I find is the most defensive people. The reason why they're defensive is because they do see the writing on the wall. They're, they're not sure where they fit in. And when you're, when a, when a new technology or a new model comes along that threatens someone's livelihood. Yeah, they don't know strategically where they fit in. They defend where they're at.
And so I'm like, look, I don't know you. I just know this technology. One of the things I was telling the, the financial advisors during that time is I said, no, the technology that was created, nobody asked your opinion about, nobody asks for your approval to turn your business model upside down. And that's, I said, that's one of the things that you, why you need. Even if you don't believe in it, even if you don't like it, you need to lean in and learn it. Because there is somebody, there's a group of individuals in some office that is destroying your business model and reinventing it and turning it upside down. And they are not asking for your opinions, your ideas. And because it's, they're also positioning it to make financial sense for the people who are going to buy it from the top down. You need to strategically lean in, listen what's being changed, and then reposition yourself. How do I fit in strategically?
[00:40:42] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:40:43] Speaker B: So that's how I thrived because I knew my information. I also knew that I wasn't there to pitch anything. I was just there to help open your mind to say, look at what's possible, look at what's coming. And yes, this is, mind you, I was talking about this in 20, 25 years later, one of the most AI and AI and digital assets and cryptocurrency is like, everybody's looking for a speaker for that. And I'm like, I'm already done talking about that. I already did that five years ago. What else? Like I'm. And so as ladies, staying is go beyond status quo, live on the edge. And it took me a while to talk about struggles. When you are on the edge of innovation, it is nothing but darkness in front of you and a little sliver of light to say walk this direction, that's it. And you're not going to have a bunch of friends with you. You're going to maybe have five or 10 people who are like oh yeah, I totally get it. The majority, the 99%, they won't, they will pick it up years later. And so as I start to understand like you know how like the Steve Jobs and the of the world, like when you live on the forefront of innovation, it's, it's a really, it's a lonely, I wouldn't say lonely. It's a limited space. Your friends are few, your like minded people are few. Not, not because you're better than anyone, but because you're seeing so far ahead and it could be years ahead. It's more than months. It's years. I would say on any given day I'm usually living three to four years out, but I'm officially okay with that. It took a while for me to be okay with that and then just drop nuggets as I'm having conversations with friends and clients. Just drop nuggets. But know that when it comes they'll see it, they'll experience it. But for now I'm just going to position myself so that way I could say, yeah, been there, done that. Here's what you need to think about. And then isn't that what a consultant, Some of the best consultants.
We're ahead of the game.
[00:42:49] Speaker A: Yep, you gotta be. Yeah, well and I, and I want to not get lose the point where you said you got to be looking at what's happening around you and what's happening and even if you don't like it, you don't have a voice in it. It's going to change your business, your business model. I think that's one of the best pieces of advice that you could give right now because we're changing so rapidly and just being open minded about it, you gotta, you gotta kind of get on that bandwagon because things are going to happen and things are going to change whether you're part of it or not. Yeah, you have to make that decision. So I want to ask you, because nobody gets off this podcast without answering the question around a big wheel moment for you, Big Will moment. It could be something big or small but it changed something for you. It could be a personal decision, a professional decision, but it changed trajectory in your life.
You know, it, it's. It can be just anything that you want to share with other people.
[00:43:56] Speaker B: Yeah. So I would. My. My big will moment was when I burnt out in Miami. And it was my. Interesting is there are certain parts of the US that my life has circles around. And so anyway, so I burnt it. This was my second time opening a hotel in Miami and it did burn me out. Right. I was easily working like 80 hour weeks, sometimes 100 hour weeks. Just always on to the point that even my nutritionist was like, how are you getting out of bed in the morning? Are you on drugs? Like, she's like, because you probably need drugs to get out of the bed. I was like, no, I take a super smoothie, vitamins.
Because the stress had drained and depleted me.
[00:44:42] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:44:43] Speaker B: And so I never forget how intense it was for me to leave Miami is when I. The day I left, there was a hurricane in front of me.
[00:44:54] Speaker A: Oh, of course there was.
[00:44:55] Speaker B: I was like, yes, of course. And that hurricane went all the way up to what was.
Was on the Gulf side. But anyways, I was behind her. I said, this can't be more of life telling me, you need to leave, you need to go. And so I took a 14 day road trip from Miami to Colorado. I got to Colorado.
Yeah. The. I didn't know how fast I was going. So much so that I really wasn't paying attention to the direction of my life. And when I got to Colorado, one of the first things that hit me was I was driving and there was nobody behind me for like three hours. I thought I was lost. I was like, where are the people? I said, oh my gosh, this is Silence of the Lamb. This is the bad part in the movie.
Something's gonna go wrong, right? Me and my little mini schnauzer in Alexis. I was like, this is not gonna end well.
I never driven through Colorado. Didn't know.
[00:45:58] Speaker A: Oh my goodness, that's funny.
[00:46:00] Speaker B: But when I was out there and I. It took me. It was my first six months of. Yet Colorado moves very slow. They basically, Colorado moves at the pace of nature. And I didn't know how fast I was going physically until I saw that my environment around me was calm and quiet and you know, and then that's when like, oh, okay, I can just be. And it was during that time that I started to do that deep reflection on it wasn't that the career burned me out. I said I loved it clearly I was in it for so long. What did I love about it? And I. And I. And it took me time to realize I love creating experiences. I love the. And for me, sales and marketing just came down to I got to create a mo. I got to create moments, right? The banquet events. Like, that's not a banquet event. That's somebody's wedding anniversary. That's a birthday party, right? That's a big celebration. I said, I got to create those moments. And I loved all the details. And so I said, okay, how can I take that love of creating experiences and now shift to small businesses of all kinds?
And so to me, that was the big awakening. And also recognizing to do things that reflect my personality. And so even when I decided to start working with small businesses, like I said, it took me some time to really dial in. Who's that? Who's that person? Who's that company that I truly serve well? And I realize that it's also about the mindset. I'm not attracting a certain demographic. And so I don't really buy into like, you know, I've had clients who are like early millennials. I've had clients who are boomers. I've had clients all over the. But what I realized, I said, what's the common denominator? Ooh, they're creatives, they're strategists, they're like, yeah, let's just, let's do this.
[00:48:01] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:48:01] Speaker B: Versus, like, well, give me a 10 page report on why this. Nope, you're not my people.
I say, and now I could say, you can go to AI and ask it that question, but I love to strategize and be creative and that, that breakdown moment. So, you know, the late. If I could walk away within. If your audience can take away anything, if you've experienced a moment where you have literally felt shattered by life, shattered by the stress, right? Whether it's career, personal health, all the things I had, all the things crashing at once. And there was no manual for how you overcome that, except get quiet. And one of my mentors, who's also an incredible international gm, when he had his moment, he said, the best thing I did, he Sundays, I took six months off. He said, I've been working since he, since, what was it, the 1980s? He said, I've been going full time. He said, yeah, I took my two week vacation. He said, GMs don't have vacations. He said, that's a myth.
He said, I took two months off. And he realized that all of his experience and he became then a consultant for boutique international boutique hotels. And he flies around the world and look at that. Open some. And he goes in, he does a very specific stage lot level of team training and then he's off to the next thing. So when he said take six months off, I said, I'm going to double it. So I took a whole year off. And wow, being able to take a year off, my. I need to create something person. For the first 30 days I was trying to create projects for myself. I was like, no, no, I am, I'm taking hikes, I'm going to learn how to fly fish.
I, you know, my stomping ground was between Vail, Aspen, Telluride. That was my zone.
[00:49:50] Speaker A: And that's great.
[00:49:54] Speaker B: You become a better leader when you're more in tune with who you are creatively, strategically, whatever your secret sauce is, and knowing that that's your differentiator in the market and then being able to then attract both the clients and the team. Oh, my gosh, everything then you love showing up to work. You love working and it's not working. It really is true. It's not working anymore. Yeah, it's fun and it's playing. Anytime you find yourself, this is. It's like, okay, either one, you got the wrong client, something's going on your team or something's off with you.
Go, go, go on the water, go for a hike, go for a run, disconnect. Go take your dog on a walk. It's looking at you, it's telling you, we need to go on a walk now.
[00:50:39] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. You know what? I love that. All of that is fantastic. It's like fantastic advice. It's interesting because I have my GP and I have a cardiologist. The two of them, I'm fine, but I have a cardiologist for just family stuff.
But the first thing that each one of them always ask me, because I'm pretty active and they know running is kind of. That's my Zen, they'll say, so what are you doing? You know, are you still out on the road? What you doing? Are you still in the pool? You know, very first question. Because, you know, they know that that kind of sets me.
And I think it's wonderful advice. I think it's hard for people to take and to make the time and maybe they can't get the year, but you can always take the time. I think we as women too tend to not prioritize it.
I think we don't give ourselves or allow us the time or the opportunity you know, just because of our caretaking nature, you know, and. And all of the people around us. But I think that, you know, my mom gave me a bit of advice not that long ago, and she lives with us, right? So my mom is.
She has an immune. You know, she has ra, and it's pretty. It's pretty bad. And anyway, she said to me, I know you take care of me and you take care of the kids and you take care of the business, and your dad is always, you know, my dad's 90 and I'm always going to see him and just all this stuff. And she said, but I'm going to tell you something. Your kids, everybody else, they'll basically let you die, you know, wither away without even realizing it. No one's going to take care of you except you.
[00:52:31] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:52:31] Speaker A: So in the end. And they don't mean it. I mean, it's not like everybody's going to literally after me. But, you know, I think that's really great advice. So thank you. And I want to thank you for being here with us on the podcast today. Now, I've got to ask you how people can get a hold of you, because I think it would be great just to link, you know, connect with you on LinkedIn. I think you're dynamic, fabulous, wonderful person. I hope you'll come back on the podcast as well, because I got some other stuff I want to talk to you about as well.
[00:53:04] Speaker B: Oh, absolutely, yes, by all means. LinkedIn is my place. I am there daily. Yes, Sony Dumont dot com. And yeah, just have a conversation. I love that. That take care of you because, you know, you're the powerhouse of your creativity of that next level of strategy. One of the things I wanted to add that a good mentor also reminded me is that, you know, as ladies, we're always going and spinning and got doing all the things. And it's very true when they say, in order to catch up, you have to slow down. And it's this weird dichotomy because when you slow down, you get clear. You look at that list of a hundred things and realize. Because I find for me, whenever I'm speeding too much, a part of me has lost sight of my vision.
[00:53:53] Speaker A: You are so right.
[00:53:56] Speaker B: I got 100 things. Oh, my God, I got to do it all. It's like, wait, wait, what's my vision? So I got to go and grab a acai bowl. I got to go out to the lake. Seriously, like, acai.
[00:54:07] Speaker A: You are definitely a favorite person of mine. I got to tell you all it's sushi.
[00:54:12] Speaker B: Like, and where's the lake? And okay, what's the vision again? All right, 75% of that list just got cut. And then what. What's the incremental daily things I'm supposed to be doing to help get me towards that vision? What do I need to delegate that somehow I got on my plate, and then, okay, and. And that could take. Sometimes that takes me two or three weeks to slow it down again or to say, okay, I gotta get out this one project wrapped up. Let me slow down. I know the world feels like it's moving fast, but if I do not take care of the engine, take care of the car, the wheels are going to fall off, and then I'm stopped. And the. And sometimes, like with my Miami transition, my body was stopping like it was struggle to wake up in the morning, struggle to have any energy to do anything. Hence, it's all the super. I was taking every superfood known to man. So ask me about it. Didn't matter. And so, ladies, you can pause. Like, the world's going to continue to your point. It's going to move with or without you. And so being able to pause, slow down, and say, what's my vision? And connect with that, and then when you slow down and you get clear about your vision, when you return, you got the energy, you got the. The focus, and you fly. And then you're like, oh, but we have to do. We have to remind ourselves of that, because life will. That list of hundreds will show up again. You got. No, no, can't do it. So I'll end with that.
[00:55:51] Speaker A: Hey, it's Michelle. Thank you so much for listening today. If you enjoy our podcast and know someone who you believe would make a great guest, I would love to hear from you. Feel free to connect with me on LinkedIn and let's talk. I'd love to hear your feedback, and as always, may it inspire you in your own personal and professional journey of life.
